Episode 604 || From the Front Porch Live From Reader Retreat
This week on From the Front Porch, we have a special treat: a recording of our live show from The Bookshelf’s September 2026 Reader Retreat! In this episode, Annie is joined by special guests, author Joshilyn Jackson, and Hunter and engage in a suspense/thriller fantasy draft with help from Ashley. Enjoy!
To purchase books by guest author Joshilyn Jackson, stop by The Bookshelf in Thomasville, visit our website (search episode 604), or download and shop on The Bookshelf’s official app:
Some Joshilyn Jackson titles:
From the Front Porch is a weekly podcast production of The Bookshelf, an independent bookstore in South Georgia. You can follow The Bookshelf’s daily happenings on Instagram, Tiktok, and Facebook, and all the books from today’s episode can be purchased online through our store website, www.bookshelfthomasville.com.
A full transcript of today’s episode can be found below.
Special thanks to Dylan and his team at Studio D Podcast Production for sound and editing and for our theme music, which sets the perfect warm and friendly tone for our Thursday conversations.
If you liked what you heard in today’s episode, tell us by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. You can also support us on Patreon, where you can access bonus content, monthly live Porch Visits with Annie, our monthly live Patreon Book Club with Bookshelf staffers, Conquer a Classic episodes with Hunter, and more. Just go to patreon.com/fromthefrontporch.
We’re so grateful for you, and we look forward to meeting back here next week.
Our Executive Producers are...Beth Phares, Cammy Tidwell, Jammie Treadwell, Jospeh Shorter IV, Kimberly, Linda Lee Drozt, Martha, Nicole Marsee, Stephanie Dean, Gene Queens and Wendi Jenkins.
Transcript:
[00:00:00] Annie Jones: Welcome to From the Front Porch, a conversational podcast about books, small business, and life in the South. I am Annie B. Jones, and I am so excited to do this live. Do you know the Bill O'Reilly quote? We're doing it live. So doing great quoting Bill O'Reilly right off the bat. Okay, so tonight what we are going to do like we normally do when we do a live podcast episode. The truth is I don't actually have a ton of guests at the same time on From the Front Porch. It's frequently either me by myself or me with Olivia and Erin, me with Ashley, me with Hunter. So this is more guests than we're used to having. So when we do these, we do a fantasy draft. So when I was trying to brainstorm how we want do the fantasy draft, it occurred to me we're almost, or Keila would say, we are already in spooky season. We're living it. And so we are going to talk a little bit about suspense and thriller fantasy tropes. But before we do this, I want talk about why I wanted to talk about this. So if you're not familiar with Joshilyn Jackson Hart, she started... how would you describe your first books, like Gods in Alabama, Back Seat Saints?
[00:01:21] Joshilyn Jackson: Weirdo Southern fiction for people who like plot but need depth of character, and who like humor but who are willing to go down into some pretty dark places.
[00:01:30] Annie Jones: Great. Off the cuff, beautiful elevator. So she started writing those kinds of novels. And then in 2020, 2021 she began writing more domestic thrillers. But I liked how you worded it earlier today at Reader Retreat, which is you really just shifted focus. All of your books have always had kind of a mystery, dead body element. Yeah. And then it was just a matter of where you were placing the emphasis.
[00:01:56] Joshilyn Jackson: Yeah.
[00:01:56] Annie Jones: Yeah.
[00:01:57] Joshilyn Jackson: If you can get through a whole Joshilyn Jackson novel and somebody hasn't been beaten to death with a tequila bottle, have you gotten through a Joshilyn Jackson Novel?
[00:02:05] Annie Jones: Yeah. So we thought it would be fun to talk through suspense, thriller tropes, what we recognize in the genre. Hunter, I want know, how comfortable are you with this subject matter? Because I don't want put this on you, but it's not really in your wheelhouse. Are you a huge thriller, suspense reader?
[00:02:19] Hunter Mclendon: Okay, so I've read all the hits. So I've read all of Gillian Flynn, I've read all of Megan Abbott.
[00:02:24] Annie Jones: Okay, that's true.
[00:02:25] Hunter Mclendon: Yeah.
[00:02:25] Annie Jones: And that's how we first connected.
[00:02:26] Hunter Mclendon: Yes.
[00:02:27] Annie Jones: Was Megan Abbott.
[00:02:28] Hunter Mclendon: Yeah. Our friendship, literally the root of it, is in The Fever by Megan Abbott.
[00:02:33] Annie Jones: That's right. I forgot about that.
[00:02:35] Hunter Mclendon: August 2014. I have the receipt.
[00:02:40] Annie Jones: It's literally a receipt.
[00:02:41] Hunter Mclendon: Yeah.
[00:02:42] Annie Jones: He literally has the receipt from the bookstore.
[00:02:43] Joshilyn Jackson: Proof of friendship.
[00:02:44] Annie Jones: Yeah. Proof of the origin. So I wanted to talk about what our favorite examples of the genre are. So what are some of your favorite suspense novelists? What are some of your favorite movies? One of my weird comfort movies is Sleeping with the Enemy. Yes, excellent. Highly recommend. I think my friend and author Kerry Winfrey says it's like a secret rom-com if you dig real deep. So Sleeping with the Enemy is one of Julia Roberts' first films. And that is one of my favorite spooky seasons-- it's not spooky. I don't really like suspense, like a little thriller. Do
[00:03:18] Hunter Mclendon: Do you also like Enough by Jennifer Lopez? No,
[00:03:22] Annie Jones: No, I do not.
[00:03:23] Hunter Mclendon: You're like, "I love whenever women are in danger."
[00:03:26] Annie Jones: No. That's not what I like about Sleeping with the Enemy. Although, every time I straighten the towel in our bathroom, I do think about that mustache. And I think, "Oh, no. Is that me? Am I the villain?" But my other favorite example of the genre is... Okay, wait. It's not called While You're Sleeping. It's called What Lies Beneath.
[00:03:43] Hunter Mclendon: Oh, yeah.
[00:03:43] Annie Jones: You should love that.
[00:03:44] Hunter Mclendon: I do.
[00:03:45] Annie Jones: It's very campy Michelle Pfeiffer. Yes. Michelle Pfeiffer and Harrison Ford. Handsome Harrison Ford playing a real creep. That's a great movie. So those are some of my psychological, domestic thriller. Yeah. That's my preferred direction of the genre. What are some of your favorite?
[00:04:00] Joshilyn Jackson: I'm going to say Sleeping with the Enemy, the book is better. Have you read the book? It is so good.
[00:04:06] Annie Jones: Okay.
[00:04:07] Joshilyn Jackson: Yes, and the end is different.
[00:04:08] Annie Jones: I didn't even know it was a book.
[00:04:09] Joshilyn Jackson: It was a book first. Yeah, I love it. But my favorite right now, I'm completely obsessed with Widow's Bay.
[00:04:14] Annie Jones: Okay. I love Widow's Bay.
[00:04:16] Joshilyn Jackson: Sunset cocktails, everybody. I had 12.
[00:04:20] Annie Jones: Have you watched the whole thing?
[00:04:21] Joshilyn Jackson: Yes, twice. I'm ready to start over. I'm obsessed.
[00:04:24] Annie Jones: It's so good.
[00:04:25] Joshilyn Jackson: It's so good.
[00:04:26] Annie Jones: And it's I think what I love about it is if you have not seen it, it's so great horror but humor. It's so funny. Oh my gosh, it's so funny. Which takes away there are some real creepy episodes.
[00:04:36] Joshilyn Jackson: Yeah.
[00:04:37] Annie Jones: But I love that show.
[00:04:38] Joshilyn Jackson: Yeah, I'm obsessed.
[00:04:39] Annie Jones: Have y'all watched it yet?
[00:04:39] Hunter Mclendon: No.
[00:04:40] Annie Jones: Get on that.
[00:04:41] Hunter Mclendon: Okay, wait. Have y'all seen Copycat with Sigourney Weaver and Holly Hunter?
[00:04:46] Annie Jones: Yes, I have.
[00:04:48] Joshilyn Jackson: Okay. That's old. That is a throwback.
[00:04:49] Annie Jones: That's a deep cut.
[00:04:50] Hunter Mclendon: Yeah. Let me tell you, okay, because like there's this whole thing about Woman in the Window, the A. J. Finn, the whole scandal. I haven't read Woman in the Window, but I did watch the movie because of Amy Adams, of course
[00:04:58] Annie Jones: Yes Obviously.
[00:04:59] Hunter Mclendon: But I did see a lot of parallels. But let me tell you, i'm getting goosebumps because Copycat. First of all, Dermot Mulroney, who is also in My Best Friend's Wedding, he is in it. Listen, ugh, I cannot. Love of my life. But I think he is darling. Anyway, if I could be Holly Hunter, if I could be like 4'10" and Clarice Starling.
[00:05:17] Annie Jones: That could be me. I could be Clarice Starling.
[00:05:20] Hunter Mclendon: Yes. You should be Clarice Starling.
[00:05:21] Annie Jones: For Halloween.
[00:05:22] Hunter Mclendon: Yeah.
[00:05:23] Annie Jones: Okay. What would Isaac be? A lamb?
[00:05:25] Joshilyn Jackson: A lamb.
[00:05:28] Hunter Mclendon: A lamb. Is it going to be an animal?
[00:05:30] Annie Jones: Sure. Great. Family costume. We're not really family costume people, but that could change that. Okay, do you have any favorite examples of the genre? It's not really yours either.
[00:05:41] Ashley: It is not mine. I don't handle blood well. I forgot about What Lies Beneath. I think I've been confusing that for The Lovely Bones this whole time.
[00:05:48] Joshilyn Jackson: Oh, no.
[00:05:49] Ashley: Yeah. I know, it's very different. But my most vivid memory is... does this count? Rosemary's Baby, because we watched the movie at her house. She was fresh married to Jordan Jones. I was in high school.
[00:05:59] Annie Jones: Yes, and Jordan was out of town.
[00:06:00] He was out of town. It was a slumber party with my sister, me, and Annie.
[00:06:04] Annie Jones: We were all in a queen bed, and I was like, "Let's watch Rosemary's Baby."
[00:06:08] Ashley: That's a great idea. We heard a noise, and we had to call her a brother to come from 20 minutes away with a baseball bat. It was a baseball bat, right? To catch Satan.
[00:06:18] Annie Jones: It was a baseball bat. Because satan was there. And so we had to eject that DVD. And I pulled a Chris Butterworth, which was I put that DVD in the case, and we all three marched out to the dumpster together and we exorcized the dumpster.
[00:06:31] Hunter Mclendon: Okay. Would you ever consider rewatching...
[00:06:35] Annie Jones: I asked Jordan the other day, I said, "Should we rewatch Rosemary's Baby?" And he said, "Absolutely not.
[00:06:40] Joshilyn Jackson: Hot take. The book is so much better.
[00:06:45] Annie Jones: I believe it. That's not a hard task.
[00:06:47] Joshilyn Jackson: No, if it's a horror movie you can't say that because you literally called somebody to do an exorcism in the back alleyway.
[00:06:52] Annie Jones: I was in high school. I was a minor.
[00:06:55] Joshilyn Jackson: Chevy has a master's in theology. His master's in theology was going to come to exorcise things..
[00:06:59] Hunter Mclendon: Okay, but everyone should also read the terrible sequel, Son of Rosemary, because it is very entertaining. And it was dedicated to Mia Farrow. And I won't spoil anything, but it is so funny.
[00:07:09] Annie Jones: Did you also read Rosemary's Baby?
[00:07:11] Hunter Mclendon: Yes.
[00:07:11] Annie Jones: Okay. Do I need to read it?
[00:07:12] Hunter Mclendon: Yes. Also, he wrote Stepford Wives, which I love.
[00:07:15] Joshilyn Jackson: The book is so much better than all the movies.
[00:07:17] Hunter Mclendon: Yeah.
[00:07:17] Joshilyn Jackson: And this is not just me being a reader saying that. Okay, I love Jane Austen. I read her books every year, but the Ang Lee Sense and Sensibility is better than the book. It's so good. It's just a fact. I'm sorry. So I'm not just saying that blindly. In these cases Rosemary's Baby a classic, but the book is good.
[00:07:34] Annie Jones: Okay.
[00:07:34] Joshilyn Jackson: You need to come see [crosstalk]
[00:07:36] Annie Jones: Listen to me, I don't remember anything.
[00:07:37] Hunter Mclendon: No, her memory is mush.
[00:07:39] Annie Jones: My memory is shot.
[00:07:40] Ashley: That's why you want re-watch the movie.
[00:07:43] Annie Jones: Yeah, exactly.
[00:07:44] Ashley: You don't remember how bad it is.
[00:07:46] Annie Jones: I just told Jordan the other day, I was like, "Should we re-watch that?" And he said, "Absolutely not." Okay, so these are some of our favorites. I do want talk a little bit because we did a similar draft, I cannot remember when. I don't remember if it was with Carrie Winfrey or if it was with Annabel Monaghan, but we did romance tropes.
[00:08:01] Hunter Mclendon: Yes.
[00:08:02] Annie Jones: But it was a little bit harder to come up with suspense tropes. Why is that? I had no trouble remembering oh, one bed, or enemies to lovers. Yeah. But coming up with suspense tropes, I made a list that I felt was good, and then I asked Keila and Olivia because they are our resident kind of horror, suspense, thriller readers at The Bookshelf, and they helped me edit the list. But it was harder to come up with tropes. Why is that? I don't know. I want to talk about that.
[00:08:28] Joshilyn Jackson: I don't know. It doesn't seem that hard to me. I'm [ inaudible].
[00:08:32] Annie Jones: Yes, you can do it.
[00:08:33] Joshilyn Jackson: I also think I would have a really hard time thinking of romance tropes because I don't read them very much. I read them every now and then.
[00:08:39] Annie Jones: So maybe that's it. Maybe I just read too many of those.
[00:08:41] Joshilyn Jackson: I read them a lot. I read these a lot. Okay.
[00:08:42] Annie Jones: Yeah. And Olivia had no trouble coming up with them. So maybe it is just a matter of I read probably more rom com. Do I? Yeah, I do. Yeah.
[00:08:51] Joshilyn Jackson: And also those tropes are... I guess I probably could come up with them because I do love a rom-com movie.
[00:08:55] Annie Jones: Me too. That's really what it is. I probably have seen a lot more rom-coms.
[00:08:57] Joshilyn Jackson: That's so present, and all those tropes are very present.
[00:09:00] Annie Jones: And very obvious. I think sometimes suspense tropes are a little bit more buried. I think a good suspense, or the ones that I like, the trope is there but you might have to dig for it a little bit, if that makes sense. Whereas, in a rom-com, typically they're pretty obvious.
[00:09:13] Joshilyn Jackson: Also, in a rom-com or in a romance you want to be predictable.
[00:09:19] Annie Jones: Yes.
[00:09:19] Joshilyn Jackson: When I read a romance, it's because I want a really specific curated experience. And if I don't get that, I'm going to throw the book across the room really mad. Like, when you read a suspense novel, you don't know what you're going to get, and that's the fun. You want to be surprised. I don't want to get to the end of a romance and then they break up and walk away from each other. Are you kidding me?
[00:09:37] Annie Jones: That's not what you're there for.
[00:09:38] Joshilyn Jackson: No.
[00:09:39] Annie Jones: Okay. I like that. I think that makes sense. You're going to a suspense novel for something else. You're going for surprise. Okay, so we have got our list. Ashley, do you want read the tropes?
[00:09:49] Ashley: Okay. I'll read the tropes, and then we'll do snake draft.
[00:09:52] Annie Jones: Okay.
[00:09:52] Ashley: All right. So we're drafting from this list as follows: isolated locale, cults. These people know these tropes.
[00:10:03] Annie Jones: Good. I think we're doing a good job.
[00:10:06] Ashley: Campus novel, revenge, missing person, countdown/ticking clock, heist, unreliable narrator, possible haunting, locked room, podcast/true crime component, revisiting history, parentheses detective revisits an old case.
[00:10:25] Annie Jones: Okay.
[00:10:25] That's what we're choosing from.
[00:10:27] Annie Jones: Okay. All right. Also, I just want to say because of course I have to plug it here, I know how to do fantasy drafts now. Have you guys heard I'm in a fantasy league this year? And it's my favorite thing. Did you guys know? And all I- Did
[00:10:37] Ashley: Did you guys know I'm the winner of that fantasy league for last year? I have the ring.
[00:10:41] Annie Jones: She's losing right now.
[00:10:42] Ashley: I'm not doing well right now.
[00:10:43] Annie Jones: Yeah. Losing right now. Anyway, I just wanted to plug that. But now I know how the snake draft works because of that.
[00:10:48] Ashley: Yeah. Okay, so we're going to snake draft based on birthdays. Whoever has the next birthday will go first, which I believe is Annie B. Jones, February 2nd, and then Joshilyn.
[00:10:56] Joshilyn Jackson: February 1st.
[00:10:57] Annie Jones: No.
[00:10:58] Joshilyn Jackson: No. February 27th.
[00:11:02] Ashley: Already playing dirty. So we'll go Annie, Joshilyn, Hunter, Joshilyn, Annie.
[00:11:07] Annie Jones: Hunter goes twice.
[00:11:08] Hunter, Joshilyn. Oh, that's right. How many times have we done this?
[00:11:11] Annie Jones: We've done it so many times. In a snake draft, the last person goes twice.
[00:11:14] Joshilyn Jackson: So I have the worst position and I'm the guest.
[00:11:17] Annie Jones: But you got so excited.
[00:11:18] Joshilyn Jackson: I didn't know what snakes y'all were going to be. All right.
[00:11:21] Ashley: We let you get excited.
[00:11:23] Joshilyn Jackson: I know.
[00:11:23] Annie Jones: So sorry.
[00:11:24] Okay. Annie, which one?
[00:11:25] Annie Jones: Okay, I'm going to pick campus novel. So I love a campus novel. I like academia, but I didn't like living it, so I prefer reading about it. So I really set on a college campus or it could be a high school campus. But I like where there is maybe some kind of... Oh, I think The Secret History is probably the best example of this. But, like, where there's maybe some kind of charismatic professor, and there are kids maybe following blindly because they're learning who they are. And I even don't mind, now this isn't always true, but I even am okay with a slight magical realism element, which I'm not always. But on a campus, it's grounding it a little bit, I think I do. And plus points for kind of the atmosphere and kind of the slight... My favorite suspense novels are slightly unsettling. And so I was trying to think of a good example of this besides The Secret History, and there is a book, maybe you can help me, and it's got a blue cover. And the lady's name is Ter- It begins with a T. And she's also written... It's TW. Tara Westbrook? Is that it?
[00:12:24] Hunter Mclendon: Tara Isabella Burton. The World Cannot Give.
[00:12:26] Annie Jones: The World Cannot Give.
[00:12:26] Hunter Mclendon: Yes.
[00:12:27] Annie Jones: See, I knew he could do it. I really was just doing that to set you up. But she also wrote Social Creature, which is great. But I love the campus novel of The World Cannot Give. My book club hated it, but I loved it. And so I really like that slightly unsettling, there's either a charismatic professor or a really charismatic student who takes everybody under their spell. Or also love that there was a dead body last year on campus, and now we got to figure out why. I love that kind of thing. So campus novel is mine.
[00:12:53] Joshilyn Jackson: Okay.
[00:12:54] Annie Jones: Okay.
[00:12:54] Joshilyn Jackson: Should I tell you why that's wrong or...?
[00:12:58] Annie Jones: You're welcome to.
[00:12:58] Joshilyn Jackson: No I'm just playing with you. I actually love A Christmas Novel. It's a good one. I am going to take Possible Haunting, and here is why. I believe very strongly that if you want a book to have resonance, the past has to be alive in the present. And the sense of place has to be alive in the present. There's also so much variance with the idea of a possible haunting. Is this a Scooby-Doo thing? Are we going to pull the groundskeeper's werewolf mask off? Or is this more of a thing where it is actually there are supernatural elements there, or is it somewhere in between and we're never going to In the Woods- Tana French.
[00:13:33] Annie Jones: Yes. Tana is so good.
[00:13:35] Joshilyn Jackson: That kind of atmospheric thing is so good. And I also feel just because we are in the South, there is not a square inch of this earth that is not a possible haunting.
[00:13:46] Annie Jones: It's so true. We were talking about this at the bookshop the other day. I don't know why, and it wasn't the typical suspects. It wasn't Keila. She was not downstairs. But we were asking people if they believed in ghosts, and so many people said no, and I thought, "In the South, how could you just blatantly say no?"
[00:13:58] Joshilyn Jackson: Because they're lying. People don't want say it. If you dig deeper than that people be like I don't believe in ghosts, quite frankly, but have I been in haunted places? Yes.
[00:14:09] Ashley: Yes. I have neighbors who they were trying to get a pool put in, but they couldn't because the pool guys wouldn't do construction because it was an Indian burial ground.
[00:14:17] Annie Jones: Interesting.
[00:14:19] Ashley: It's real.
[00:14:20] Annie Jones: It is real. And I have a friend who just became a real estate agent. She was like you can feel a presence in a house if something not great has happened there. The house holds those things. The
[00:14:28] Joshilyn Jackson: The energy is there.
[00:14:30] Annie Jones: Yes.
[00:14:30] Joshilyn Jackson: And I think so much of a good suspense novel is that energy has to be present where you just feel that going up your spine a little bit.
[00:14:38] I have goosebumps right now. Got me a little scared.
[00:14:43] Annie Jones: Okay, Hunter.
[00:14:44] Hunter Mclendon: Okay. I'm going to choose Countdown/Ticking Clock. And the reason why is because as somebody who's been working on a novel, something I've discovered is that most every single-- and not just thriller suspense, but most every story that I love and am deeply engaged with has this type of element. You see this a lot with books about weddings and funerals where a lot of times it's this lead up to something. And there's there's this book called So Happy For You, and it's about this bridesmaid who she hates her best frenemy who's the bride, and you're waiting for the wedding to come and you just know that something bad's going to happen in this moment. And you see this happen with... it is basically an immediate thing that gives you propulsion because you know that you're reading towards something.
[00:15:25] Annie Jones: It sets up the pacing.
[00:15:26] Hunter Mclendon: Yes and I think that is so exciting because sometimes if I don't know where a book is going, I'm like, " Y'all need to hurry up." But when I know, when I feel like that little tick, tick, tick...
[00:15:35] Annie Jones: Like The Dinner.
[00:15:36] Hunter Mclendon: Yes.
[00:15:37] Annie Jones: Yes.
[00:15:37] Hunter Mclendon: You know that it's leading to something. You don't have you are rest assured that like no matter what happens, you know we're going to end up somewhere. And like The Dinner's a great example. In Gone Girl even, you're waiting to see when is she coming back or are they going to find the body? Even if you don't know what it's counting down to, it's counting down to something. And that is very exciting to me, so that is my choice. Hopefully, you guys all agree.
[00:15:58] Annie Jones: That's right because the audience voted the answer. You guys better be paying attention.
[00:16:01] Hunter Mclendon: Yeah.
[00:16:01] Annie Jones: I'm paying attention.
[00:16:02] Hunter Mclendon: My second one is unreliable narrator. It's controversial, but to me I think every first person narrator is unreliable because no person's entirely reliable no matter how often they tell the truth. But I think that if you're doing this well, it is not really cheating the audience because a lot of times it really is just giving you a character's perspective, even if they're not... so they don't always have to even be hiding anything, but it's giving you a very specific perspective that you only learn later. It's almost like when you're a kid, and you only know your parents' point of view because you only know a little bit of the parent point of view because you're a kid.
[00:16:38] Annie Jones: Yeah.
[00:16:38] Hunter Mclendon: And as you get older, you start to learn a little bit more about who they are.
[00:16:41] Annie Jones: Yeah.
[00:16:41] Hunter Mclendon: It does not always mean that a narrator is deceiving you. Sometimes it just means that that it's a limited perspective.
[00:16:46] Annie Jones: Or we were just talking about Switzy.
[00:16:49] Hunter Mclendon: Yes.
[00:16:49] Annie Jones: And the narrator has dementia.
[00:16:51] Hunter Mclendon: Yes.
[00:16:51] Annie Jones: And so it's not like he is some nefarious, unreliable narrator. It's just he is an unreliable narrator because of what his brain is experiencing.
[00:16:58] Hunter Mclendon: Yeah.
[00:16:58] Annie Jones: Yeah.
[00:16:59] Hunter Mclendon: And so I think that I find it very exciting to be in the perspective of a person who we are experiencing this story with them. Listen, if you talk to anybody for the first time, the first 10 pages, you don't trust anybody. You're really going to let some stranger into your purse? Okay. No. You get to know them, and you start to trust them, and if they betray your trust that's on you at this point. So that's that.
[00:17:21] Joshilyn Jackson: I am going to say that I think of all the tropes on here, this is the most polarizing and the hardest to pull off well. Because when it's done well, it's great. But when it's a trope it's not a good trope because it's always bad. It has to be fresh. It has to be done in a new way. It has to be reinvented every time.
[00:17:42] Annie Jones: That's why we're all, what, 20 years later still talking about Gone Girl.
[00:17:46] Joshilyn Jackson: Because it was done well. Or I See Dead People. But I think as a trope it's essentially bad because as a trope it can't work. It's a trope. It's always this. I'm a first-person narrator and I have this thing behind my back and I'm not going to tell you for no reason. Oh, wait, it's the last 10 pages. Ugh.
[00:18:04] Hunter Mclendon: Okay. Let me tell you, I do have to say, while Gone Girl is my favorite example of this, I do have to say there is a book, I will not name the book, but I will say that an adaptation of that book is coming out soon with Anne Hathaway and Dakota Johnson. And it rhymes with rarity. And that book feels like you sent Gone Girl and Rebecca into ChatGPT and it spit something out.
[00:18:28] Ashley: No offense. Sorry, Colleen, if you're listening.
[00:18:31] Hunter Mclendon: It is not my favorite book of the genre. It is very fun to discuss, but it is not a very... I did not like it. I didn't like it.
[00:18:38] Joshilyn Jackson: And I do want take this moment to say, Colleen, we hope you will be the guest author for the next Readers Retreat. I just have to point out that as a fresh thing, when it's done well, it's great, but as a trope, I think you've got pulled a really weak one. Because it's a bad trope.
[00:18:54] Hunter Mclendon: That's fair. And we also have to go ahead and put on record, like Annie Jones and From the Front Porch are not affiliated with this review. Yeah.
[00:19:05] Joshilyn Jackson: Okay. I'm really torn because there's three really strong ones left, I think. But you know what I'm going to take? I freaking love a revenge novel. And I'll tell you why.
[00:19:15] Annie Jones: I just read one. I was like, we just read at our book club. It was a great example.
[00:19:18] Joshilyn Jackson: I tell you why. I think because of the human experience, living on the earth with other people. There's not a person here who has not been betrayed. And when you get into that space, and there is a resolution where maybe for you the betrayal happened and a year later you were like, "I have the perfect comeback. I should've said this. I should've done that." And then to just watch it play out in real time and just it's so freaking satisfying. And it's also like you get to vicariously live an experience that y'all, look at you, you would not do. But through this book you just get to be your worst self for a moment and it doesn't feel bad, it feels good. So I'm going to take revenge.
[00:20:10] Hunter Mclendon: You know what's so funny about that, is that the ticking clock structure works really well for revenge because you're waiting for them to get revenge.
[00:20:15] Joshilyn Jackson: That is true. Ticking clock was a very strong pick. Anytime you put a deadline on a chapter, people read faster. It's a very strong pick.
[00:20:23] Annie Jones: It's true. Also, I hope I wrote enough tropes down. Remember when this didn't work one year? It could happen again. Okay. I think my next one is going to be cult.
[00:20:33] Joshilyn Jackson: Oh, that's a good one.
[00:20:34] Annie Jones: And I kind of like cult novels for the same reason I like a campus novel, which is you have frequently this kind of nefarious charismatic person. And maybe it goes back to when you're raised religious. Maybe it goes back to this is our version of the revenge novel. Like we're reading about what would happen if a cult fell apart or if a woman finally maybe left a cult. I started Tenderness, which is really good about... It has the ticking clock element, but it's about a woman who's getting married, and she has just left a cult. It's set in the '70s. Anyway, so I loved reading about her kind of removing herself from that situation. I also liked Emma Cline's The Girls, which I would not call a thriller.
[00:21:13] Joshilyn Jackson: It is a cult book.
[00:21:14] Annie Jones: It is a cult book. It is really good, but it's not a thriller.
[00:21:16] Hunter Mclendon: No. Okay.
[00:21:18] Joshilyn Jackson: It is suspense.
[00:21:18] Hunter Mclendon: Wait, this is not why I'm scoffing. I
[00:21:20] Annie Jones: I think he's mad because he read it and didn't like it.
[00:21:23] Hunter Mclendon: You don't remember this. This is 10 years ago. She's like, "Should I tear out the first 50 pages and then throw away the rest?"
[00:21:28] Annie Jones: It's been a minute because I don't remember. Wait a minute. Emma Cline.
[00:21:32] Joshilyn Jackson: Emma Cline, would you like to be our next guest?
[00:21:34] Hunter Mclendon: Also, she only gave The Incendiaries four stars.
[00:21:37] Annie Jones: Rude. I'm hateful for a reason. Anyway, I just love a cult. And I think the reason I like a cult is the same reason that I like a campus novel or that I like an isolated locale, which is you're stuck together.
[00:21:53] Joshilyn Jackson: I also want point out I am not a vicious person, but I am competitive. And I do want point out that you have chosen two tropes that are actually often cohesive.
[00:22:02] Annie Jones: Yes
[00:22:03] Joshilyn Jackson: If it's a cult, it's probably on campus. And if you're on a campus it's probably a cult. That's right.
[00:22:06] Annie Jones: And they're combining this beautiful connection.
[00:22:10] Joshilyn Jackson: A very narrow field.
[00:22:11] Annie Jones: Instead, it's what a beautiful bundle of books this would be. If I was hand-selling a cult novel. Yeah. Do I go again?
[00:22:18] Joshilyn Jackson: So you guys get two turns for every one turn of mine?
[00:22:22] Ashley: Everybody gets two but you.
[00:22:23] Annie Jones: Yeah.
[00:22:23] Joshilyn Jackson: Are you serious?
[00:22:25] Annie Jones: Yes. That is how snake draft work.
[00:22:28] Ashley: I'm so sorry.
[00:22:28] Annie Jones: I didn't make
[00:22:30] Joshilyn Jackson: the rules.
[00:22:30] No, you didn't tell me the rules either. I did not have the chance to genuinely lie about my birthday.
[00:22:38] Annie Jones: So allow me to continue with what I think is a cohesive collection of works, and I'm going to say isolated locale.
[00:22:46] Hunter Mclendon: That's mine.
[00:22:47] Annie Jones: That's fine. You can have it. I like an island. I like we're all here for a weekend trip together. We're on a writer's retreat. And so what if all mine are the same? They all work together.
[00:22:58] Joshilyn Jackson: Okay, that's not the same. You've never left the reservation because an isolated location is not a campus. That's like the exact opposite.
[00:23:04] Annie Jones: A campus can be isolated.
[00:23:06] Joshilyn Jackson: Like a little New England kind of like... okay, yes.
[00:23:09] Annie Jones: And listen, every campus is its own world, its own culture. Have you ever been to an SEC football game?
[00:23:14] Joshilyn Jackson: No. Maybe if I had, I would know what a snake draft was.
[00:23:21] Annie Jones: Your turn.
[00:23:22] Joshilyn Jackson: Well, i'm going to actually change since I am only going to end up with three things. I was going to be nice and not just pull from- Everybody
[00:23:29] Annie Jones: We all get four.
[00:23:29] Hunter Mclendon: We all get four.
[00:23:30] Joshilyn Jackson: How do I get four?
[00:23:30] Annie Jones: Everybody gets four somehow? It works.
[00:23:32] Ashley: Almost done.
[00:23:33] Joshilyn Jackson: Yes.
[00:23:33] Annie Jones: Yeah.
[00:23:34] Joshilyn Jackson: Okay.
[00:23:35] Annie Jones: Yeah, somehow the math matched.
[00:23:36] Joshilyn Jackson: Oh.
[00:23:36] Annie Jones: See you're ahead. Somehow it worked.
[00:23:38] Joshilyn Jackson: I thought that they just got two for every one of mine. I was like,
[00:23:42] "This is so mean."
[00:23:44] Annie Jones: We do like to set people up for failure.
[00:23:47] Joshilyn Jackson: All right. Okay. Since I get two more, which I didn't realize, I'm going to change again. I'm going to go more broad spectrum. I'm going to take missing person.
[00:23:55] Annie Jones: Okay.
[00:23:56] Joshilyn Jackson: And here's why I'm going to take missing person.
[00:23:58] Annie Jones: Your book is called Missing Sister.
[00:24:00] Joshilyn Jackson: Yeah. Obviously ,I like a missing person story. Yeah. So the thing about a missing person is that I think when it's done well and when the trope is working, is the challenge for the storyteller is to make the missing person be present on every page. And so that their absence it's like reading a book and the book was a set of teeth. You've just had one taken out and you can't get your tongue out of that hole. It's just like this, eh, like that. It is disgusting, but when that person is so present and when it's done well, the fate of that person who you've never seen for 90% of the book, whether we're going to find the body or whether we're going to find them alive, or whether they will never be found, but we learn what happens, or we at least get revenge... so I'm going to take that. I think it's a strong trope.
[00:24:52] Annie Jones: Did you like God of the Woods?
[00:24:54] Joshilyn Jackson: I loved it.
[00:24:55] Annie Jones: So I think this deal does that very well.
[00:24:56] Joshilyn Jackson: I do too. And a lot of the ones that I'm picking are hallmarks of Gothic novels, which I love Gothic novels. And I love Southern Gothic too, but I'm talking about gothic.
[00:25:05] Annie Jones: Do you like Rebecca?
[00:25:06] Joshilyn Jackson: So much. I like Rebecca.
[00:25:07] Annie Jones: Remember when I read what was that? The Winters. The Winters. I had never read Rebecca. And so I was like, "The Winters is so good. I love it." And then somebody was like, "It's a retelling of Rebecca."
[00:25:16] Hunter Mclendon: No, she read The Winters and then she was like, "We should do Rebecca for Backlist Book Club." Which was, like, pre Conquer a Classic. And then we read it and she was like, "Yeah, it's just fine." And I had not read The Winters, and then she was like, "I love The Winters." And then she was like, "I think The Winters is a retelling of Rebecca." And then I read The Winters.
[00:25:37] Annie Jones: It's literally in the title.
[00:25:38] Hunter Mclendon: Yeah, it is.
[00:25:39] Annie Jones: The name is in the title.
[00:25:40] Hunter Mclendon: Although, I do like...
[00:25:41] Annie Jones: Guys, sometimes I'm a little dumb. It's okay.
[00:25:43] Hunter Mclendon: It's okay.
[00:25:43] Annie Jones: It's okay. Everybody's a little dumb. No. Everybody- How
[00:25:46] Joshilyn Jackson: How did you know that?
[00:25:47] Annie Jones: Everybody's a little dumb sometimes.
[00:25:48] Joshilyn Jackson: Yeah.
[00:25:49] Annie Jones: It's best to admit it.
[00:25:49] Joshilyn Jackson: I'm a little dumb quite often, but I don't think that is an example of it.
[00:25:55] Annie Jones: Could have happened to anyone.
[00:25:56] Joshilyn Jackson: Again, it's in the title.
[00:25:57] Annie Jones: I think it's your turn.
[00:25:57] Hunter Mclendon: Okay. I'm actually going to choose one I don't always like, which is the podcast/true crime component.
[00:26:04] Annie Jones: I think it's another one of those tropes. What was the one she was talking about? Unreliable. It's like unreliable narrator. It's either done very well or very poorly.
[00:26:11] Hunter Mclendon: Okay. What did you think about when Rebecca Mackay used it in her last book.
[00:26:15] Annie Jones: I didn't mind it, actually.
[00:26:16] Hunter Mclendon: Yeah.
[00:26:17] Annie Jones: I thought she did it well.
[00:26:18] Hunter Mclendon: I think that's an example.
[00:26:20] Joshilyn Jackson: Have you guys heard This Book Can Save Your Life?
[00:26:22] Annie Jones: Oh, yes.
[00:26:23] Joshilyn Jackson: The Tiffany Trump one?
[00:26:24] Annie Jones: Yes. Tiffany Trump.
[00:26:25] Joshilyn Jackson: That was really good.
[00:26:26] Annie Jones: It was very well done. And a well-produced audiobook that made it sound like a podcast.
[00:26:30] Hunter Mclendon: Yeah. But I think that when it's done well, I think it's one of those things that
[00:26:34] Annie Jones: What's the Rebecca Mackay book called?
[00:26:36] crowd: I Have Some Questions for You.
[00:26:37] Annie Jones: Thank you, guys.
[00:26:38] Hunter Mclendon: And I think that stuff like that, and even a the Halloween 2018 has a podcast element for a little bit. And I think that it really can serve as a way for the reader to... it works as an exposition-type device sometimes in a way that doesn't quite feel so "Here is me, the author, telling you things." It can work in a way that feels more entertaining than it does.
[00:26:58] Annie Jones: Listen for the Lie by Amie Tintara I thought also did this pretty well.
[00:27:02] Hunter Mclendon: Yeah.
[00:27:02] Joshilyn Jackson: I think the only real problem with it is it has been like vampire books. There's just been a podcast break out and then there were 50 million podcast mysteries to the point where it's hard for it to feel fresh right now.
[00:27:14] Annie Jones: Yeah. We're just getting a huge influx of them.
[00:27:16] Joshilyn Jackson: Huge influx of them. That's right. And then that trope gets hit so hard that you just want read something with a missing person or a ghost.
[00:27:22] Hunter Mclendon: Remember when all they all the dead gay books?
[00:27:25] Joshilyn Jackson: Bury Your Gays? So good.
[00:27:27] Hunter Mclendon: I love that. But the problem is that then the gays started living, and it was, like, awful because they're so annoying. And I can say that.
[00:27:32] Annie Jones: Great. Don't do any pull quotes from this episode.
[00:27:35] Ashley: Dear gays, we like you. Please show up in the next episode.
[00:27:39] Joshilyn Jackson: Dear gays we want you.
[00:27:40] Hunter Mclendon: Okay. My next one is revisiting history detectives revisiting an old case, et cetera.
[00:27:47] Joshilyn Jackson: That is a great one.
[00:27:48] Hunter Mclendon: Yeah.
[00:27:48] Joshilyn Jackson: There's nothing I can say against that one, damn it.
[00:27:50] Hunter Mclendon: It's a really good one because I think that this is not the same thing, but as a person who has bad anxiety, I'm constantly going over the mystery of what went wrong all the time.
[00:27:58] Annie Jones: You're re- revisiting your own history.
[00:27:59] Hunter Mclendon: And let me tell you something, I think I would be such a good hard-boiled detective because I'd be like this is the one that got away. "I've got to figure out what happened." I don't know. I've seen the trailer to a detective movie once. And I know that's what they seem to do, is look through the blinds. No, I think that a lot of us are constantly revisiting things either like Girl with the Dragon Tattoo I think is such a good example of this. Girl with the Dragon Tattoo is truly this whole thing about what happened to the his granddaughter, I think.
[00:28:28] Joshilyn Jackson: Okay, but the magic of that book is that it wasn't. The first 100 pages are about a Swedish business deal gone wrong. And yet it's riveting.
[00:28:37] Hunter Mclendon: Yeah.
[00:28:37] Joshilyn Jackson: But then the granddaughter comes in and that begins the mystery.
[00:28:40] Annie Jones: I miss those.
[00:28:41] Joshilyn Jackson: Yeah.
[00:28:41] Hunter Mclendon: I know.
[00:28:42] Annie Jones: When they were good.
[00:28:43] Hunter Mclendon: I know. It's because remember the guy he's dead.
[00:28:44] Annie Jones: Can't be helped. I'm just saying.
[00:28:46] Joshilyn Jackson: He can't be helped. And his widow didn't get any of the money.
[00:28:50] Hunter Mclendon: Yes, and she had his fourth draft and part of his fifth one ready, and she'd helped him write it. And so they were going to continue, she was going to continue on, and his family did not let it happen.
[00:29:00] Joshilyn Jackson: She lived with him for years, but there's no common law marriage law. And his father and his sibling, who he did not like and who he was estranged from, got all his money. And she got bupkis.
[00:29:10] Hunter Mclendon: Yeah.
[00:29:10] Annie Jones: What would've helped that? A will. What was he doing?
[00:29:12] Joshilyn Jackson: Yeah.
[00:29:12] Annie Jones: I'm sorry. Are you an idiot? Get a will ...
[00:29:15] Hunter Mclendon: I have had a will since I was nine years old.
[00:29:17] Annie Jones: That's great. You should have a will.
[00:29:18] Ashley: Wait, guys, what are we talking about?
[00:29:20] Hunter Mclendon: Revisiting history. So my four that are the ones that are going to win are countdown/ticking clock, unreliable narrator, podcast/true crime component, and revisiting history. Just to sum it up before we move on.
[00:29:29] Ashley: Okay. We have two left. We have heist and locked room. Joshilyn, see. It's even.
[00:29:34] Annie Jones: You don't know about countdown? Don't worry about it.
[00:29:34] Joshilyn Jackson: I don't understand it, but you're right.
[00:29:35] Annie Jones: Don't worry about it. The mystery of math.
[00:29:38] Joshilyn Jackson: Crazy pants. It's like that thing where the guy's like, "Okay, think of any number. Now think of a giraffe. Now add eight." And then somehow at the end they know your number. Okay. I'm glad that I get to go now because heist is weak sauce.
[00:29:52] Annie Jones: I hate a heist movie.
[00:29:54] Joshilyn Jackson: I know. It's so sad. I don't even think it's a trope that belongs on the board. A heist is a genre. And so I'm going to go with locked room because, listen, when I was young and being raised Church of Christ in the Deep south...
[00:30:06] Annie Jones: I didn't know you were Church of Christ.
[00:30:08] Joshilyn Jackson: I was, yes.
[00:30:08] Annie Jones: Okay, so was she.
[00:30:10] Joshilyn Jackson: Yeah. It's lovely. Would you like to know what's wrong with me? There it is.
[00:30:13] Annie Jones: We probably have a very overlapping Ven Diagram.
[00:30:16] Joshilyn Jackson: Think I think so. Yeah.
[00:30:17] Annie Jones: It's lovely. The hymns are beautiful.
[00:30:19] Joshilyn Jackson: I still love me some Jesus, but the Church of Christ... you can't play a musical instrument with them, though, so you're relying on who's ever there to sing because usually they're like [ crosstalk]
[00:30:28] Ashley: I think I have a Church of Christ playlist. Is that weird?
[00:30:30] Joshilyn Jackson: Which never happened in my Church of Christ.
[00:30:31] Annie Jones: We'll send you our Church of Christ playlist for when you're struggling with PTSD. Yeah. Where are you from?
[00:30:35] Joshilyn Jackson: Of the Redneck Riviera, Pensacola, Florida. Yeah, I was born in Fort Walton Beach, y'all. [ Crosstalk] So this close to local girl is going to make good on these four tropes that you should definitely pitch to win because I just feel like they're pretty strong. Locked room, raised Church of Christ, there were certain things I was not allowed to read, like most books. I was a book thief who read Jaws when I was eight, and I read Roots when I was nine under cover of darkness. But locked room mystery, you're talking about classic Agatha Christie type stuff which I was allowed to read. And that, "Daddy has seemed to be dead in the drawing room. Oh no, the window was locked. Who could have come in? There's no knife, only a puddle of water." And that kind of classic thing, we're seeing it come back now in people reimagining all of those Agatha Christie novels in ways that are so charming. Right now, Ten Perfect Strangers just came out so freaking good.
[00:31:26] Annie Jones: Do you think this is why people like an escape room?
[00:31:28] Joshilyn Jackson: Yes.
[00:31:29] Hunter Mclendon: Yeah.
[00:31:29] Joshilyn Jackson: Yes.
[00:31:29] Hunter Mclendon: Do you think Ruth Ware is like the modern...
[00:31:33] Joshilyn Jackson: yeah, I do. I love her. She is so good at it. And it's a trope that doesn't rely on it's not a gimmick. It's never a gimmick. There has to be a solution, and to write one you have to be a kind of magician who's just "Look over here. Look over here." And so I think it's a really good trope. I think it's really strong. I think the way we know that it's really strong is how it keeps coming back in waves. It's not a fad like a podcast thing. It has stood the test of time. And the reason I keep picking on you is because [inaudible] . It's fantastic. I feel like this is the competition here.
[00:32:12] Annie Jones: Because I would argue you just made an example, you made an excuse and an explanation for heist. Because a heist is also timeless. Have you ever seen Heat? Have you ever seen To Catch a Thief? Have you ever seen Ocean's 11?
[00:32:26] Joshilyn Jackson: I have, but it's not a horror. It's a suspense, but it is a heist.
[00:32:30] Annie Jones: It's a heist. It is thrilling
[00:32:31] Hunter Mclendon: It's suspenseful.
[00:32:32] Annie Jones: Yes. And you know what? And it is a trope because it has to be done well because, hot take, there is a book coming out next spring that I will not quote, I will not say the author's name, but it is a heist, and it is not working for me. And so I think when done well, this is another example like unreliable narrator.
[00:32:46] Joshilyn Jackson: You're right.
[00:32:47] Annie Jones: That it works really well when it is done well. And you have to know how to write a heist. And so I would argue, even though I have read almost no heists, this is a fantastic example of a suspense trope. It keeps you on the edge of your seat. You don't know are they going steal the money or not?
[00:33:02] Hunter Mclendon: It's a very specific type of obstruction.
[00:33:06] Joshilyn Jackson: They absolutely are going to steal the money.
[00:33:08] Annie Jones: You have to figure out the safe.
[00:33:10] Hunter Mclendon: Yes.
[00:33:10] Joshilyn Jackson: You're right. And another really great suspense trope is a romance novel with a happily ever after. Because you don't know when they're going to bang. And so it makes a romance novel just as good a suspense trope as a heist.
[00:33:25] Hunter Mclendon: A heist you can die.
[00:33:28] Annie Jones: Yeah.
[00:33:28] Joshilyn Jackson: A romance novel you can die.
[00:33:30] Annie Jones: Bonnie and Clyde.
[00:33:32] Hunter Mclendon: Bonnie and Clyde.
[00:33:33] Joshilyn Jackson: It's not a heist, it's true crime.
[00:33:35] Annie Jones: With a heist element.
[00:33:37] Joshilyn Jackson: No, it's not. There's no heist in Bonnie and Clyde. They drive around shooting people and robbing banks.
[00:33:42] Annie Jones: Robbing banks is a heist.
[00:33:44] Joshilyn Jackson: No. Robbing one bank using trickery is a heist.
[00:33:47] Annie Jones: Okay.
[00:33:48] Hunter Mclendon: We can agree to disagree.
[00:33:49] Annie Jones: All right. So should we each tell our four?
[00:33:51] Ashley: I will read.
[00:33:52] Annie Jones: Okay, great
[00:33:52] Ashley: I'll read and then we will vote.
[00:33:54] Annie Jones: If you're listening, applause is how we do this.
[00:33:56] Ashley: But not yet. Let me do it, let me read it first. Yes. And if you have any last whatever you want to say. All right. So Annie B. Jones has isolated locale, cults, campus novel, and heist.
[00:34:08] Annie Jones: Great.
[00:34:09] Ashley: Guys, don't even look up here. There's so much happening right now. Okay. Joshilyn has revenge, missing person, possible haunting, locked room.
[00:34:21] Joshilyn Jackson: All classics.
[00:34:23] Ashley: And then Hunter has countdown/ticking clock, unreliable narrator, podcast/true crime component, and revisiting history.
[00:34:33] Joshilyn Jackson: Ah. He's got to choose.
[00:34:35] Ashley: All right? Any final words?
[00:34:37] Hunter Mclendon: I'm sorry mine's so daring and controversial. I'm taking bold choices, big swings.
[00:34:45] Joshilyn Jackson: I'm sorry that mine is so classic, enduring, and...
[00:34:50] Annie Jones: I think mine goes beautifully together, and again would be a great book bundle. So good.
[00:34:54] Hunter Mclendon: You know what? I support you doing the positive side of campaigning. That works really well in politics.
[00:35:03] Joshilyn Jackson: Hey, in my adopted state it worked for Mamdani. Yeah.
[00:35:06] Ashley: Okay. Votes for Annie B. Jones. Use your applause. Votes for Joshilyn.
[00:35:13] Hunter Mclendon: Yeah.
[00:35:16] Ashley: Votes for Hunter.
[00:35:18] Hunter Mclendon: I might as well have gone last.
[00:35:25] Joshilyn Jackson: I tell you what, I did not lie about my birthday except that one time that I did. And so I played it straight, and even though I was, like, the worst-- you had the head of the snake, you had the rattle, I had, like, all the digestive tract. The worst snake place to be. So thank you, guys. Thank you.
[00:35:41] Annie Jones: From the Front Porch is a weekly podcast production of The Bookshelf, an independent bookstore in Thomasville, Georgia. You can follow The Bookshelf’s daily happenings on Instagram at @bookshelftville, and all the books from today’s episode can be purchased online through our store website:
A full transcript of today’s episode can be found at:
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Our Executive Producers of today’s episode are…
Cammy Tidwell, Linda Lee Drozt, Martha, Stephanie Dean, Ashley Ferrell, Gene Queens, Beth, Jammie Treadwell…
Executive Producers (Read Their Own Names): Nicole Marsee, Wendi Jenkins
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