Episode 603 || Literary Therapy, Vol. 29

Episode 603 || Literary Therapy, Vol. 29
From the Front Porch
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This week on From the Front Porch, it’s a Literary Therapy session! Our literary Frasier Crane, Annie, is back to answer more of your reading questions and dilemmas. If you have a question you would like Annie to answer in a future episode, you can leave us a voicemail here.

To purchase the books mentioned in this episode, stop by The Bookshelf in Thomasville, visit our website (search episode 603) or download and shop on The Bookshelf’s official app.

Amy:

Mary Lynn:

Alison:

Pillars of the Earth series by Ken Follett

From the Front Porch is a weekly podcast production of The Bookshelf, an independent bookstore in South Georgia. You can follow The Bookshelf’s daily happenings on Instagram, Tiktok, and Facebook, and all the books from today’s episode can be purchased online through our store website, www.bookshelfthomasville.com. 

A full transcript of today’s episode can be found below.

Special thanks to Dylan and his team at Studio D Podcast Production for sound and editing and for our theme music, which sets the perfect warm and friendly tone for our Thursday conversations.

This week, Annie is listening to Lane Being Lane by John Talty.

If you liked what you heard in today’s episode, tell us by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. You can also support us on Patreon, where you can access bonus content, monthly live Porch Visits with Annie, our monthly live Patreon Book Club with Bookshelf staffers, Conquer a Classic episodes with Hunter, and more. Just go to patreon.com/fromthefrontporch.

We’re so grateful for you, and we look forward to meeting back here next week.

Our Executive Producers are...Beth, Cammy Tidwell, Jammie Treadwell, Joseph Shorter IV, Kimberly, Linda Lee Drozt, Martha, Nicole Marsee, Stephanie Dean, Gene Queens and Wendi Jenkins.

Transcript:

Welcome to From the Front Porch, a conversational podcast about books, small business, and life in the South. [music plays out]

She wasn't sure if ghosts were real, but she believed in magic. Wasn't motherhood a slight of hand?

  -Kristen Arnett, With Teeth.

[as music fades out]

[00:00:37] I'm Annie Jones, owner of The Bookshelf, an independent bookstore in beautiful downtown Thomasville, Georgia. And this week it's time for an episode of Literary Therapy. If you're a new or new-ish listener of From the Front Porch, you might not realize that we are a production of The Book Shelf, a small independently owned bookstore in rural South Georgia. By listening to our show and recommending it to your friends, you're helping keep our indie bookstore in business. And if you like what you hear, one way you can financially support us is through Patreon. In 2025, we read the classic work Don Quixote together, and this year we switched things up a bit, and we have been reading The Complete Stories by Flannery O'Connor. This month we will be done. We will have read all of the stories by Flannery O'Connor, and some of her novels too.

[00:01:25] For $5 a month you can access those monthly Conquer a Classic recaps, as well as our Porch Visits, which are monthly live Q&As where we talk about everything from pop culture, to nail polish, to what books you should take on your next vacation. To learn more about Patreon tiers and benefits, visit patreon.com/fromthefrontporch. We're getting ready so very soon to announce our 2027 Conquer a Classic selection, so it's a great time to join us over there. Now, back to the show. Every once in a while, I dive into the metaphorical mailbag and peruse your readerly hang-ups and bookish conundrums like a literary Frasier Crane, tackling your issues on air. If you have your own readerly riddle you'd like for me to solve in a future episode, you can leave me a voicemail at the From the Front Porch website. That's fromthefrontporchpodcast.com/contact. There's a link in the show notes too. You'll scroll until you see the orange button on that page that says 'start recording' click or tap there, and voila. I'd love to hear from you. Just leave your name, where you're from, and your bookish problem, and I will hopefully help you solve it. Let's see what problems pop up in the mailbag today.

[00:02:43] Sara: Hi, Annie. My name is Sara, and I'm currently in Boston, Massachusetts. I've been a longtime listener, so I'm hoping you can help me with my bookish conundrum. It's that I feel like I'm always chasing the high of a previous reading year. In 2023, I read Pineapple Street, followed by Hello Beautiful, followed by Tom Lake, and that year will just always stick out as a year with such incredible books, authors I fell in love with, and it just feels every year since has not lived up to the hype. I'm not sure if I have unrealistic expectations. Maybe I'm not curating my TBR well enough. This year I was really excited about Shampoo Effect, and we got The Whistler by Ann Patchett, so I Hope that maybe this year will meet my expectations that I've had since 2023. But yeah, I was just curious if you've ever had a similar experience or if you had any words of wisdom. Hope all is well, and thank you so much.

[00:03:46] Annie Jones: Sara, I love this question because I do think this is a uniquely book person problem. I don't know that just your Joe Schmos on the street are thinking about how great their reading year was in 2023. But my friend Hunter and I talk about this type of thing all the time, what years were great for publishing, what years are a little bit maybe less. For me, I think my version of your 2023, was 2018. I just have very fond memories of that reading year, particularly A Place For Us, which is one of my favorite novels maybe of all time. And so I think many readers can identify good reading years or bad reading years. So I do have a couple of maybe overarching questions I want you to ask yourself, and then I do have some thoughts and ideas. So first of all, I want you to ask yourself what kind of year you had in 2023, because my personal life always affects my reading life. If I haven't read very many books this month, I can almost guarantee it is because I am busy with Bookshelf work, or I have taken care of Isaac, or maybe nobody's sleeping super well. I can trace my reading habits and my reading rhythms to what kind of day I'm having, week I'm having, month I'm having, year I'm having. So did you have a really great year in 2023, or was your year terrible, and so you retreated and turned to good books? I want you to ask yourself that because I want you to remember it as you think about this year or last year or why these other years aren't living up to your 2023 expectations. So first of all, not to get real into therapy talk with you, but ask what kind of year you had in 2023 and think about that. Then I think it would be beneficial, and I think fun for your bookish brain, to make a list of your favorite books from each year. Maybe you do this at the end of every year. You make a top 10, you have your list. But I think it would be important to either go back and revisit those lists or start afresh. So start with 2024, 2025, 2026, and I don't know, but you might discover that the years were better than you think, that your reading life is better than you think it is.

[00:06:03] I'll only speak for myself, but sometimes I tend to look on the past with rose-colored glasses, and part of the reason maybe I don't think 2026 is that great of a reading year is because, newsflash, I'm still living 2026, and it is hard out here. It's hard out here. 2026 is a hard year. My husband Jordan would tell you every year is hard. It's what he tells me when I tend to complain about how a year is going. He's always " That's every year," which is a good reminder. And so perhaps 2024 was a better reading year than you thought. Maybe this year is going better than you think. I also want you to treat 2026 like you've still got plenty of time. There is no need to have a scarcity mindset in October. Let's make a list of what books you would like to read before the year ends, what books have gotten a lot of buzz, what books publishers are pushing, what books you think you would like. Maybe ask your friends, "What books have you read that you think I would like?" And then make a list and try to work your way through them through the back half of the year. Quarter. Back quarter of the year. I know. We're farther along in 2026 than we want to admit. Then I want you to get excited about 2027. Go ahead and start making a list of the books that are on your highly anticipated list for the year.

[00:07:16] Your Book Riot, Lit Hub, Publishers Weekly, Kirkus, they're already starting, believe it or not, to get those lists ready. I think Emily Henry, Taylor Jenkins Reid, they've already announced their books releasing next year. So as a bookseller, am already doing spring 2027 ordering. So believe it or not, it really is time to go ahead and make your list of 2027 books. When you make these lists for 2027, for the back quarter of 2026, I want you to look back at the lists you just made from 2024 and 2025. So you've got your list from 2023. You know what books you read and loved. Look at 2024, look at 2025, and I want you to find the commonalities. I think Kendra Adachi of The Lazy Genius has called this finding your book words. Do you like dysfunctional families? Do you like cozy mysteries? Do you like sweeping epics? Find your bookish words Find your authors who work for you, and see what if, Barbara Kingsolver has a new book coming out this fall. Maybe she's one of your favorite authors. Do you have her book on your list? Do you like Bonnie Garmus, and it's time to read Peck & Peck? Take the data from 2023, 2024, 2025 and have it impact and affect the remaining months of 2026 and what's to come in 2027. I don't think your picker is broken. I think we've got to be realistic about every year being different. Not every publishing year is a great year, but there are great books every year. I do believe that. And I think you can see it reflected if you pay attention to book awards, if you pay attention to the National Book Award, the Booker, the Pulitzer, not every year is a great book in publishing, but every year great books come out. It's just a matter of finding the ones that work for you.

[00:09:12] And I think if you look at why you loved those books in 2023, and then go ahead and remind yourself, "Oh, yeah, I actually did like that book in 2024. I did like that book in 2025." See what the commonalities are, and then use it to choose better through the back quarter of this year and into 2027, making the most of your reading time. I think so much, especially as we get older, and you just realize you're never going to read all the books, it's almost like the older we get, the more we know, "Oh, I'm not going to live that particular career. I'm not going to fulfill that particular dream." That's okay. Part of growing up is realizing you're not going to do it all, and part of being a reader is knowing not every book is for you. You're not going to read them all. And the point isn't to read them all. The point is to read the ones that work for you, the ones that put you in conversations with other people. I would be so curious, when you look back at 2023 and those being your favorite books, were they your favorite books because they helped you connect with somebody? Were they your favorite books because you read them in book club? Or did you just really like the writing style, really like the authors? If so, how can we find those books again in the back quarter of this year and into 2027? So to recap, make sure you're asking yourself and you're being honest about what kind of year you had in 2023. Was it a great year? Maybe it was just a great year. Maybe 2023 was just a standout year, and it's great, but you don't really have to keep comparing every year to that year.

[00:10:40] Make a list of your favorite books from 2024, 2025, some other years to get you some more data. And then treat 2026 like you've still got plenty of time, and make yourself a big old TBR. Get excited about 2027, and make a list for that year as well. When you do that, use your past data to influence your present TBR making. So use your past data to affect your present data, your future data. And remember, not every year is going to be a great one. That's personally and in publishing. Years contain multitudes, so some books are going to be good, and some books are going to be bad. But I guarantee you there's at least one great book for you every year. The key is to finding it. So hopefully this helps, and I think will get you prepared for the remaining days of 2026, and hopefully get you excited for what's to come in 2027.

[00:11:34] Deja: Hey, Annie. It's Deja, fellow Hilderbabe. I fully endorse the book club philosophy, but lately I've been feeling like book club picks are being bossy, and it's like my brain translates it into "I don't want to read this. I want to do my own thing." Is this a phase? Is it because I'm very pregnant? How do you get out of that? You want to have book club discussions, but when it gets time to read the book, you don't want to. You want to read something, anything else but the book club pick. Thanks.

[00:12:14] Annie Jones: Deja, since she recorded this voicemail, has in fact had her baby, so we're going to act like this is still a problem you have, and it had nothing to do with the fact that you were pregnant. Although, I'm sure it actually was at least partially influenced by the fact that you were pregnant. So how do we make ourselves fulfill the assignment? We're in book clubs. We love book club, but then it comes time to read the book for book club, and we're a little less interested because maybe we're pregnant. Maybe we've got a big project at work coming up. Maybe we're overwhelmed. Maybe we just want to watch NFL, and we don't have time to read. And so how do we make ourselves fulfill our obligations to book club? Deja, I don't know your personal motivations. I don't know your Enneagram number. I don't know your Myers-Briggs. So I cannot fully Frasier Crane you. I can't fully analyze this, but here are a couple of suggestions I have. First of all, if your book club is what I would call a traditional book club, meaning they get together every month or so, and they read a book together, so you're all discussing one book, great. I love a traditional book club format. I think it's fantastic. Perhaps, though, your book club might consider mixing it up, and maybe you can help your book club every quarter or twice a year do something different. And you can do what I have heard people refer to as a reading club, meaning you get together, and you share what you've been reading.

[00:13:38] My book club right now gets together quarterly, so I think our next meeting is actually in the holidays, and I think we're just going to have a party. If you're in my book club, don't quote me on that. But I think that's the plan. In September, it occurred to me that I, the book club leader, who picked and selected all of the books for this year, had not read the September selection. And so I texted my friends, and I said, "Hey, we can still meet. But just so you know, I'm not sure I'm going to have time to read this book before our meeting. We can either reschedule, or we can just get together and share what we've been reading." And we decided to just get together and share about what we've been reading, and I won't speak for everybody, but I walked away with a great list of books to read. So if your book club is a traditional book club, can you every so often take the pressure off, and a couple of times a year, four times a year, have a reading club instead? And then that alleviates the pressure and I think will free you up to say I actually don't have to read a book every month. I'm reading a book every other month, or I get a break in April, so I can read this book now. Changing up the format is, I think, a good way to meet the obligation without getting overwhelmed because you're not having to read 12 books a year. Maybe you're only having to read six books a year or eight books a year or whatever. So change up your book club format. That's my first suggestion. Again, I don't know your motivation, but for me, one reason I do a traditional book club is this is one of the few ways we can participate in monoculture.

[00:15:06] Here's what I mean. Part of the reason I love the Olympics, or sports in general, but I'm thinking specifically about the Olympics, or this past summer we all-- I say all, but I think most of us really loved the World Cup, and we loved keeping up with it. Even if we didn't watch every soccer game or every football game, we paid attention to the TikToks that were coming out. We paid attention to the Scandinavians rowing in the streets. We paid attention to it. It was part of the monoculture. When we all read the same book, whether it's in book clubs or in I miss Thomas County's One Book program, stuff like that, it's one of the few times we're actually all reading, talking, thinking about the same thing, and I think there's something really beautiful about that. And so if you need some motivation, Deja, I don't know if that motivates you; but for me it is helpful to know, oh, this is my one way to connect with this group of friends. Or this is my one way to get to talk about this subject matter is by reading this book. This is one way that I get to participate in the conversation. We're all reading the same thing, talking about the same thing. Even if we're coming at it from different angles, different perspectives, different worldviews, we're all talking about the same thing. So that is motivating to me. It might not be motivating to you, but it is motivating to me. For some of my friends, I think about an Enneagram 2, like my mom, if she knew people were counting on her to read, if they're counting on you to contribute to the conversation, that is a motivating factor for her. To tell herself that, "Hey, your friends are counting on you. They expect you to participate. They expect you to read. The conversation is made better with your contributions."

[00:16:45] If what motivates you is a treat, a Duncan Refresher, a good cup of coffee, little piece of chocolate, a personal pan pizza from Pizza Hut, treat yourself to that thing. You finish the book club book, the reward doesn't just have to be getting with your friends and having a good conversation. You could actually reward yourself. Hear me out. We don't get gold stars anymore, so give yourself one and figure out what your reward is going to be. For every book club book you get... I have my friend Kimberly, I think she might listen to this, I'm not sure. She made her own summer reading list, her own summer reading menu, and then she rewarded herself. She had like little prizes for herself and little goals for herself. So if you read, I'm inclined to say you deserve a treat every month, but maybe every quarter you get yourself I don't know, Deja, what motivates you? A Target gift card? That would motivate me. A personal pan pizza, a Duncan Refresher? Those are my motivators. So figure out your prizes. And again, the reward isn't just the conversation, the reward is something tangible. Maybe for every three books you read for book club, you buy yourself a new book of your choice. So you've met the obligation, you've read what the required reading, and now you get to read for fun. Now you get to buy yourself a book for fun. So that could be great because I think what I'm hearing from you is it's feeling a little bit like homework. And so what is a good way to get your homework done? It's to reward yourself with something that you actually want to do, that you want to read, that you want to participate in.

[00:18:12] So treating yourself is another option. And then last but not least, give yourself opt-out months. Because the truth is, this isn't homework, right? This isn't school. No one's grading you. You actually don't get a gold star, and so it's okay to not do it. Now, do I think if you're not reading any months, then it's time to quit book club? If you're not reading any month, it might be time to say, "This isn't the season of my life for book club." But if one month out of three or four or six you're not reading, whoop-de-do. That's fine. Give yourself opt-out months, and that might honestly help you even to look ahead at the year and to say, "You know what? I got a lot on my reading plate this month. My kids got a lot going on. I mostly want to read spooky books. I don't want to read for book club." Okay, October's an opt-out month. You don't have to read this month. Read in November, read in December. Take some months off. Give yourself opt-out months. No one's grading you. No one's checking up on you. Yes, do I think reading the book is important for conversation? Of course, I do. I do believe that, but not every month are people's lives conducive to reading the book. And so give yourself opt-out months, and allow yourself, give yourself permission to opt out.

[00:19:30] So recapping, first of all, change up your book club format. Add in some reading club months where you're just sharing what you're reading instead of having to read an all-new book. Remind yourself that this is your way to contribute to a culture. This is your way to do a group activity where you're building a community. You're all doing the same thing at the same time. Remember that your friends are counting on you. The conversation is made better for you and from you and by you. Treat yourself. Give yourself a reward for reading, and give yourself opt-out months. Allow yourself some time off from book club, or look ahead and say, "I'm going to read in January, February, but I'm not reading in March." Those are my tips. I think book clubs are important. I think they're valuable. I also think not every life season is conducive to them. But if right now you still love your book club, you still love participating, those are my tips for getting the reading done. Listen, treats work really well for me. Maybe they work really well for you, too.

[00:20:22] Amy: Hi, Annie. My name is Amy. First of all, I love your podcast. It is very comforting to feel a little connection to home. I grew up in the suburbs of Atlanta, and my entire family is in Georgia, including South Georgia, and I've lived in New York City and Los Angeles my whole adult life, so it feels really nice to have this little connection to home. My question is about a book recommendation for processing divorce and transforming a relationship from a marriage to hopefully a close friendship or family-like relationship. I split up with my wife. We were together for 13 years. We split not from lack of love or any conflict, but really just wanting different things in our next chapter of life. It was the hardest decision I ever made. It was incredibly difficult and painful, and still is. And I've been to several bookstores asking about this, asking about processing divorce, not in the context of co-parenting per se, even better if it's about queer divorce with women, and I haven't been able to find anything. And so I'm hoping you can help me. It doesn't have to be about queer relationships, but really just anything about processing and creating a new relationship after divorce. Thanks so much.

[00:21:45] Annie Jones: First of all, Amy, thank you for being vulnerable and sharing this question for me and trusting me with this bookish conundrum, because it's a big one. And I have watched many friends... I think it's just part of adulthood, right? I've watched many friends go through divorces, and even when it's amicable, even when it's friendly, it is still painful, and it's still a grief and a sadness. And so thank you for trusting me with this question. I have a couple of book recs for you. A few years ago, I went to the Mississippi Book Festival, and I heard this fantastic panel. I wish I could remember the name of it because it was so clever and well done, but it was Harrison Scott Key, Maggie Smith-- not Dame Maggie Smith, author Maggie Smith-- and Hannah Pittard, I think is how you pronounce her name. And there may have been one other author now that I think about it. Anyway, and it was all about matrimony, divorce, marriage, relationship, and it was so fantastic. Each one of them had a totally different book, a totally different perspective, totally different storytelling capability. Now, all of them were very funny and very well-spoken and thoughtful and intentional about their books and about what they were saying, but I loved that panel. It was so honest. And so I do want to recommend a couple of their books in particular that I think could work for you and your circumstance. The first is You Could Make This Place Beautiful by Maggie Smith. If you have not read that, I really do think it is a poignant look at a happy marriage and it's coming apart.

[00:23:19] And Maggie Smith had children, so it certainly talks about that. But beyond that, it's just about the loss, I think, of that relationship and that friendship, and just the change in relationship dynamic. They maybe remained friends or friendly but for the sake of the kids, but it was still painful and heavy and burdensome and hard. And so I thought she was a fantastic panelist, first of all, and second of all, the book is gorgeous, both literally and metaphorically. The book has a beautiful cover, but also Maggie Smith is a poet, and so the way that she writes, the memoir is almost told in these little vignettes, so it just almost plops you down in a moment, and the result is fantastic storytelling and also it prevents the book from feeling too heavy or too bogged down. You can catch your breath while you're reading. I also liked this book because it talked about even if you have a home with progressive ideals or maybe even non-traditional roles, maybe a marriage that looks different from your parents' marriage, sometimes we still fall into those same traps. And so I thought this was a very unflinching look at divorce, particularly through the lens maybe of finding and discovering yourself and who you are. So You Could Make This Place Beautiful by Maggie Smith.

[00:24:46] I have not read this book, but I do follow Jessica Turner on Instagram, and she wrote a book, I believe last year, called I Thought It Would Be Better Than This. I was familiar with Jessica Turner's work. She writes in the Christian space. Her husband writes these beautiful children's books. We've carried them at the Bookshelf. Matthew Paul Turner is his name, and he came out as gay a couple years ago, and so their marriage ended. They're still co-parenting, still raising their kids. They still have what appears to be a beautiful friendship, but they're no longer married. In fact, she is remarrying this year, which is really fun and happy for her. But she's written a book that reflects what happens when you still love the person that you were married to, but you want the best for them, and the best for them means something else. The best thing for them is not what you had together. And so I have not read that book, but I would imagine maybe at least some of it would feel relatable. She does write in the faith space, so I do not think this book is technically Christian nonfiction, if you're familiar with that genre. Another memoir that I have not read, but I do love Leslie Jamison, and I know Hunter loves her, is Splinters. This is her latest memoir. It is about her divorce, and then particularly the ways that her parents' marriage maybe accidentally affected her own relationship or maybe even weirdly prepared her for her divorce.

[00:26:16] Another popular book that came out last year, was this just last year? Jen Hatmaker's Awake. I think there's a lot of books that fall into that divorce memoir category, but I think this is a very valuable memoir that is much like Maggie Smith's. Unflinchingly honest, but she never throws anybody under the bus, even though I think she maybe could have, and instead is more about reckoning with herself. So reckoning with the role she played in her marriage, and also not even the marriage itself, but who she wanted to be next. Jen Hatmaker got married quite young, and so figuring out who she was and trying to figure out her own personal identities, and I really liked that aspect of the book. I also like that in Glennon Doyle's work. So Glennon Doyle famously wrote-- I think famously, at least in my circles, she wrote famously a book called Love Warrior in which she talked about her husband's infidelity, her then husband's infidelity, and their way back to themselves. And then she ultimately did get divorced, and then she remarried pretty famously Abby Wambach, the famous soccer player. And so now she wrote, I believe in 2020, a book called Untamed that kind of unpacked almost like an adult coming-of-age story and figuring out who she was and who she loved.

[00:27:31] And then, okay, I've got one fiction book that I read a handful of years ago by a Florida author Kristen Arnett. The book is called With Teeth, and it is, I think, a really realistic portrayal of a lesbian couple as they raise their kids And I loved just how realistic the relationship looked, and it was messy and fraught, and it didn't always work. I loved this book. I don't know if Hunter hand sold it to me or not, but I loved that. And then while I was doing research, I thought, "Okay, what if you were a customer at The Bookshelf and you came to me with this?" And this happens a lot. I joke that being a bookseller is what I imagine being a bartender must be like, where you really do hear people's intimate stories and they're coming to you in sometimes really vulnerable spaces. And so if you, Amy, walked into The Bookshelf and you came to me with this dilemma, what would I hand sell you? What would I look up for you? And I do think the Maggie Smith memoir is one I would grab, The Jen Hatmaker. And then as I was looking, I thought, "Wait a minute, I just feel like I saw something recently," and I did. This fall, in I want to say the Penguin Random House catalog, there is a collection called To The End. It's edited by Morty Diamond, and I remember spotting this in the catalog because the truth is a lot of divorce literature is about straight couples, and this is a new collection of essays written by queer writers, trans, non-binary, intersex, and it's all their different perspectives of divorce, separation, transformation.

[00:29:02] So you're going to get a wide spectrum of storytelling and a wide spectrum of relationships, but it's, I think, offering a different perspective because a queer uncoupling might look different, probably will look different from a straight couple's divorce. And so I love the essay format. I like that you could pick this up and put it down, read an essay, take away the truth of it the stuff that would help you, then move on to the next one. And maybe not every essay would be applicable, but you're bound to find something. That's why I love essay collections. You're bound to find something that works for you. This book is called To The End. It's edited by Morty Diamond, and it comes out in November. And so this is the reason I thought, "I have not seen this anywhere yet, but I know I saw it in the catalog," and I believe it's because it comes out on November 10th. It's a paperback original, and I think there are writers trying to fill this space. I don't think there are a ton. It doesn't surprise me that maybe some of the other bookstores you've been to have struggled a little bit because I just think a lot of the divorce memoirs and divorce lit that is out there is about straight couples, and so this is trying, I think, to fill that void. So To The End, edited by Morty Diamond, could be a book that maybe you should pre-order or at least have on your radar for when it releases in November. I hope these are helpful, and maybe you can find something that might be comforting for you in this season.

[00:30:23] Mary Lynn: Hi, Annie. This is Mary Lynn. I'm a longtime listener, first-time caller from Charlottesville, Virginia, and my literary conundrum has to do with audiobooks. I am in a season where I'm listening to more audiobooks and would like recommendations for books that are plot-driven and compelling ones that will make me want to pick up my phone and listen to the next chapter rather than choosing to listen to book podcasts instead. Some audiobooks that have worked for me in the past include Good People, Light Breakers, Evvie Drake Starts Over, This Story Might Save Your Life, Hartwood, and Falling. Books that have not worked for me on audio include The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue, The Women, in part because I'm already sad about having to wash my dishes, I don't also want to be sad about the Vietnam War. And God of the Woods, I thought I would really like it because of nature and murder, and the pacing was just too slow for me. So would love your recommendations.

[00:31:37] Annie Jones: Mary Lynn, we are big audiobook fans here at The Bookshelf, but I think Bookshelf staffer Olivia probably feels the way you do, in that she needs something that is plot-driven, that is compelling. I would also argue you need a good narrator, and so I was looking at the list that you sent. You did make me laugh. Your line about the women in Vietnam and washing dishes did make me laugh, so thank you for that. But I really was picky here, because I listen to a lot of audiobooks. I don't listen to as many as Erin and Keila do, but I do listen to a lot of audiobooks, and not all of them work for me, but I was going to recommend to you The Amateur by Chris Bohjalian, and I don't think that will work for you at all because I think you need something that's a little faster-paced, compelling. And I think one tip I have for you is for you to go back and look at the list of the books, the audiobooks that worked for you. Look at that list. If you are on, I know on Libro.fm, I am sure if you use Libby or something like that, some equivalent app, you can do the same thing. But I would go and click on one of the books, tap on one of the books that you loved, find the narrator's name, click or tap that name, and then look and see what other books they have narrated. Because I think, I would argue, it's sometimes, not all the time, but it's sometimes less about the book than it is about the narrator. And so if you have some audiobooks that worked for you, that you loved, see who those narrators are, and see if you can search Libro.fm or Libby by that author and find more books for you.

[00:33:09] So that's my first tip, is to go back, figure out the narrators, and then find books narrated by those same narrators. I think that will be really helpful. Okay, but I do have a list of plot-driven, compelling audiobooks that I think will hold your attention. The first is Listen for the Lie by Amy Tintera. This was beloved by me, Olivia, and Erin. No Erin and I both listened to it. I think Olivia might have read it. But this is a fiction suspense novel, but there is a live podcast element, so I thought about This Story Might Save Your Life, which was such a well-produced audiobook. And I think if you are looking for good production value, Listen for the Lie does it very well. Because, again, there's a podcast element, so it mixes up how the book is being narrated. I also think it's just a very compelling mystery thriller, a very well-done mystery thriller. That is Listen for the Lie by Amy Tintera. I would go to the Jodi Picoult well here. I would start, personally, one of, one of my… God, I really did love it. Now, it was unsettling, but I think you could argue that of a lot of Jodi Picoult books. But one of my favorite of hers over the last decade has been Small Great Things. We listened to this. Back in the day, we had an audiobook book club with our local yarn shop, and so we would listen to audiobooks while we knitted. It was actually really fun. It was a pre-pandemic time. Anyway, but we listened to this book, and we always listened to an excerpt, and then people could go on and continue listening to the whole thing, and a lot of people said that they kept listening to this book. It was such a well-done audiobook. Jodi Picoult books are really plot-driven, in my opinion. They have great character development, but a lot happens in her books, so they easily hold your attention. And Small Great Things in particular, just so intense. I loved it as an audiobook.

[00:35:04] Erin is currently listening to Hollow Bones, I downloaded that from Libro.fm, so that is also on my list. But I think Jodi Picoult has great audiobooks. This year I read True Biz by Sara Novic, and I have qualms with the ending, you know if you listen to From the Front Porch, but I loved the audiobook. I thought it was so good. A lot happens, plenty to keep you listening, and the narration is great. I wasn't sure about this one for you, Mary Lynn, so proceed with caution. But The Foursome by Christina Baker Kline I think is a fantastic audiobook, and I think it was the kind of audiobook that I wanted to listen no matter what I was doing. So I'm pretty sure I was merchandising The Bookshelf, and sometimes I like to listen to music while I merchandise, but instead I listened to this book. And so that's always a good sign to me is when I want to put in my headphones. If I want to listen to an audiobook, that means that the narrator has done a good job. So I think it's a little less plot-driven than maybe some of your others, which is why I'm saying maybe put this on your list, but put it towards the bottom. And then the last two recommendations are Enormous Wings by Laurie Frankel, fantastic in audiobook, great for fans of, oh, The Road to Tender Hearts, and really good in audiobook format, very fun narration, and lots happens. Very easy listen. And then The Night We Lost Him by Laura Dave. I would argue that's a great audiobook. Actually thrillers often work for me. They don't always, but they often work for me in audiobook format, and I think it's because of the reasons you named. They're just very plot-driven and very compelling. That would be my personal start list. That would be the list where I would kick off. But then truly do go back and look at those narrators and see what other books they narrate, and see if that would also help boost your list. Listen for the Lie by Amy Tintera, Small Great Things by Jodi Picoult, True Biz by Sara Novic, The Foursome by Christina Baker Kline, Enormous Wings by Laurie Frankel, and The Night We Lost Him by Laura Dave.

[00:37:04] Megan: Hi, Annie. This is Megan from Indiana. I am a huge fan of the podcast, and my husband and I absolutely love Frasier, so this is a perfect combination. My readerly conundrum is I have a really hard time starting books. I am an avid reader. I adore reading. But when it comes to starting books, I really struggle. In the last month, I think I've probably picked up six or seven books and tried to start them, but I find myself just getting distracted, having a hard time getting into the story. Then I start looking up reviews on Goodreads and talking myself out of actually reading the books. And I just don't know how to start a book and actually get into it to be able to judge whether it's a good fit for me or not. And I'm worried about DNF-ing a book that I'm going to love in the end which actually happened a couple weeks ago. So I was about to DNF, and then I thought I'd stick with it, and ended up adoring the book. So anyway, just any suggestions that you have for starting a book and sticking with it I would greatly appreciate. Thanks so much.

[00:38:10] Annie Jones: Megan, some of the advice I gave to Deja might work for you, and Deja, some of the advice I'm about to give Megan might work for you as well. I think a lot of us have a hard time getting into a good book right now, and I would argue it is because of the phone. So my first piece of advice for you, stop looking at Goodreads. Go put your phone in another room. Go put your phone in another room. Brick your phone. Do something with your phone. I think that to me is one of the biggest hindrances to starting a new book. I love starting a new book because I probably like you, Megan, have a stack. So I think first of all, do you have a good stack? Do you have a good TBR? Do you have a good well from which to pull? If you do, I think the phone is the problem. So I love starting a new book because I've got a stack or I've got a list. I know what I want to read next. I have an idea. I love picking my next book. Oh my gosh, my friend Jennifer and I always talk about how excited we are to pick the next book. So first of all, make sure you've got a good TBR. Make sure you've got a good stack, something that makes you excited to pick up a new book. But really, it's the phone. I think you got to put your phone in another room. I think you got to brick it, turn it off. I would argue if you've got an Apple Watch, take it off. I am no fan of the Apple Watch. Oh my God, an Apple Watch drives me bananas. They drive me bananas. We are not Inspector Gadget. We're not. Free yourselves. Free yourselves. Brick your phone. Brick your phone, put it in another room.

[00:39:41] Megan, let me be very clear, I am talking to myself. I sat the other night and had an uninterrupted probably two hours, and I thought, "Oh my gosh, I'm going to get so much reading done." Do you know what I did? I scrolled some dumb stuff on Instagram. I read a couple of good Substack essays, and then I scrolled some dumb stuff again, and then I read probably 10 pages. So I think the phone is the problem. Put your phone in another room or brick it. Set a timer. Okay, two things. Two things to choose from. Either set a timer or give yourself 50 pages. Now, it might take you fewer. Sometimes for me it's 20 pages. But I think if it's a literary book, 50 pages. If it's a thriller, feel-good book, it should hook you in 20. But give yourself 20 to 50 pages or set a timer, and do not ... Don't pick up your phone, don't look at your watch, don't check the water boiling on the stove. Don't do anything for those 50 pages, 20 pages, or the timer. So maybe your timer's for 20 minutes. Maybe it's for 15 minutes. You'd be shocked how much you can read in 15 minutes. Set a timer or set a number of pages. And the reason I say this is because it sounds to me I think it takes a minute to get into a book. It's almost like watching a movie or starting a brand-new show. If you're starting a brand-new show, you got to give the folks a second to introduce you to the characters. You got to give them a minute to give you the lay of the land. The same is true of a movie. You got to give it a few minutes. This is months late, but Jordan and I finally saw The Odyssey. We finally saw The Odyssey. We thoroughly enjoyed it, by the way. But at first I thought, "This is not going to be for me, and I'm going to take a nap," and that's fine. I'll pay for a nap these days, so that was fine with me if I fell asleep. But after the first 20 minutes, I was hooked. And so you got to give the creators time.

[00:41:39] It would take a certain kind of work for you to be pulled in from page one. Again, a good thriller should pull you in from the first sentence. But I think generally you got to give a book 20 to 50 pages or 20 to 30 minutes. So you either need to set a timer Or give yourself a few pages. I would not start a new book at the doctor's office, right? I would take a book to the doctor's office that I'm already reading, but I would not start a new book at the doctor's office. We need uninterrupted time to start a new book. We need uninterrupted time, again, 20 to 30 minutes or 20 to 50 pages. If you're trying to start a book while watching a football game, okay, I love to read while sports are on in the background. I really need to go ahead and be in a book. I don't need to be starting a book during a football game. Trying to give another example. I don't need to be starting a book in the pickup line of my kid's school. I can be reading in the pickup line, but not a brand-new book. A brand-new book, a book that you're just cracking open, I think you need 20 to 30 minutes or 20 to 50 pages. Those are my best tips. I think we are living in a distracted age. It is not your fault, but I do think there are some things we can do about it. And again, I'm talking to myself because I'm having a real problem with my phone. And I think it's because I think let me just look at that for a few minutes. It's a nice break, something mindless. I think it's becoming detrimental for me. I will not speak for you, Megan, but it is becoming detrimental for me.

[00:43:04] And so I think our brains are out of practice on getting enmeshed. Our brains are out of practice in getting engaged, like fully engaged. We don't go to sit at the movies anymore. We're just out of practice. We start a show on TV, and we can pause it at any time. Even when we used to watch TV, I'm thinking about as an adolescent and I was watching Gilmore Girls, you had to wait for the commercial to go pee. Now I can pause at any old time I want. It's broken. I think technology is breaking us, and there are pluses, of course there are, but I do think our brains are a little bit disengaged and distracted. I think you got to give yourself some time, some pages to get into a book, to get fully engaged. Those are my best tips. Put your phone in a different room, and then give yourself 20 to 50 pages or 20 to 30 minutes. I say this as someone whose life is stupid busy, I do have 20 minutes. I do. I'm often using it to scroll Instagram. So let that be a lesson to me and to you. Those are my best tips, Megan. I hope that helps.

[00:44:07] Alison: Hi, Annie. It's Alison calling from Brisbane, Australia. I listen to your podcast all the time. I think it's absolutely wonderful when I'm going for a walk and getting lots and lots of book advice. I'm actually calling to say I have just finished Pillars of the Earth, that epic Ken Follett book from the late '80s, and I understand there's other books in that series, maybe some prequels and books after that. But what I wanted to know from you, if there's something ... I'm not into fantasy, but if there's something epic like that from somewhere else around the world, it doesn't need to be English historical fiction, but something that has that sweeping saga-like sense of just being immersed in this world. I have read quite a bit of Isabel Allende, so I have read House of Spirits, things like that. So I'm probably not after something like that, but books from other areas of the world that have the vibe of Pillars of the Earth. Thank you so much. Thanks, Annie. Bye.

[00:45:14] Annie Jones: Alison, the gasp that I gasped when I realized you were coming to me from Brisbane, Australia, and also that is how you pronounce Brisbane, I cannot wait to tell every person I know that I got a voicemail from an Australian. I do have a friend in Australia. We went on a London trip a few years ago. You don't know her. Her name's Emma, but she's great. But other than Emma, I don't know any Australians. And now, Alison, I will claim to know you because the delight that I felt when I realized this voice memo was coming to me live from Brisbane, I could not believe it. So thank you so much for listening to From the Front Porch a world away. I am truly astounded, flabbergasted, delighted. Thank you. All right, I have not read Pillars of the Earth, but I do feel equipped to answer this question, partly because what you are describing is exactly what Hunter and I are trying to do with Conquer a Classic every year. We have not always succeeded. The Complete Stories does not fit this category. But generally speaking, we're looking for a big old thick book that is sweeping, that is epic, and that really transports the reader, something that is a saga. And so certainly some classics we have read in Conquer a Classic I think would fit this description. Of course, Anna Karenina, of course The Count of Monte Cristo, of course Lonesome Dove. Oh, Alison, if you have not read Lonesome Dove, please read Lonesome Dove. But Here are some other titles that I do think will fit the bill, and this was a relatively easy list for me to come up with because these are books Hunter and I have talked about doing for Conquer a Classic.

[00:46:52] And listen, no spoilers here. I'm not about to divulge the 2027 selection. But when we are looking, we have considered Pillars of the Earth before, and so when we have looked for books in the past, some of these titles have come up in our wanderings. So first of all, have you read Pachinko or American Hagwon by Min Jin Lee? American Hagwon just came out in the States last month, the end of September, and I have not read it yet, but you might be interested, Alison, because part of it does take place in Australia. It takes place in Korea, Australia, and California. And Min Jin Lee writes a very sweeping story. Pachinko is her other book. I was corrected on a Patreon. It's not her first book, so this is not her sophomore novel. I'm sorry, that was my mistake. But she's written other things, but she really took off with the book Pachinko. So you could read Pachinko or American Hagwon, but American Hagwon might have particular interest for you. It is a family multi-generational story about two parents and then their children and, of course, immigrating from Korea to Australia and then from Australia to California. I am curious if you have read the Outlander series. This is a book I really have wondered if I would like Outlander, and I am pretty sure, if I am not mistaken, Laura Tremaine, she's an author. She wrote Life Counsel, which I loved. She also had a podcast called- I think it was called 10 Things to Tell You. That might have also been the title of her first book. Anyway, she has a book podcast called Slow Read, and it is with Sarah Holland, Sarah Stewart Holland from Pantsuit Politics, and they... oh, I can't remember what they did first. I know they did The Stand by Stephen King, and I think now they are doing Outlander. I think that's right. So anyway, you could read and then listen along with them. It I have not listened, but it sounds a little bit like Conquer a Classic, only they've done more modern stories. So that is Outlander.

[00:48:55] Shogun by James Clavell is set in Japan, and again, these are books we have researched, we've talked about doing for Conquer a Classic, but it comes up on all the lists as a big, sweeping, epic story. But that one is set in Japan The Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco and The Shadow of the Wind by Carlos Ruiz Zafón, and those are both set in Spain. Different books, different authors, but two epic type books. Kristin-- I don't ever know how to pronounce this. And we, Hunter and I, this has been on our list for years because bookshelf staffer Lucy loved this book. Kristen Lavransdatter by Sigrid Undset, and you can find the spelling in the show notes, but that is a Swedish book. I believe it's Swedish, and so that would be in a different part of the world than some of the other titles I've mentioned. And then I never read, although I think-- I just remembered my cousin, it was required reading for my cousin Jennifer, but The Good Earth by Pearl S. Buck, if you've never done that. So you have your classics, Count of Monte Cristo, Anna Karenina, Lonesome Dove, and then Pachinko or American Hagwon, Outlander series, Shogun by James Clavell. Shogun would be Japanese. The Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco, and The Shadow of the Wind by Carlos Ruiz Zafón. Both of those are Spanish. Kristen Lavransdatter by Sigrid Undset set, I believe, in Sweden. And then The Good Earth by Pearl S. Buck, set in China. Those are my recommendations, Alison, for epics that aren't fantasy. They are sweeping, have a saga-like feel, and they're set all over the world. I hope at least one of them works for you.

[00:50:37] And those are our readerly dilemmas for this episode of Literary Therapy. If you have a bookish conundrum you would like me to tackle on air, you can visit fromthefrontporchpodcast.com, click Contact Us, and then scroll down where you can see 'Leave Me a Voicemail'. Give me your name, where you're from, and tell me your literary dilemma, and you could be featured on an upcoming episode of From the Front Porch. Thank you to all the listeners who left a voicemail for this week's episodes. I love hearing from you, and I'm so grateful you trusted me with your bookish issues.

[00:51:16] This week, I'm listening to Lane Being Lane by John Talty.

Annie Jones: From the Front Porch is a weekly podcast production of The Bookshelf, an independent bookstore in Thomasville, Georgia. You can follow The Bookshelf’s daily happenings on Instagram at @bookshelftville, and all the books from today’s episode can be purchased online through our store website:

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A full transcript of today’s episode can be found at: 

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Special thanks to Studio D Podcast Production for production of From the Front Porch and for our theme music, which sets the perfect warm and friendly tone for our Thursday conversations.

Our Executive Producers of today’s episode are…

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Executive Producers (Read Their Own Names): Nicole Marsee, Wendi Jenkins

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Annie Jones

a weekly conversational podcast on books, small business, and life in the South